Scourge Strike --> Blood Presence (fix aplicado)

[slogan123]

Y sigue con lo mismo más pesado que bolsa de papas no te sirvieron los últimos comentarios antes de la salida de cata? No me digas nada eran de la secta

double dipping means that something gets a bonus effect from 1 stat through another part of the attack. righteous vengeance with 2PT10 double dips into crit because A) it applies X times more often and B) it crits X times. scourge strike double dips in blood presence and rage of rivendare because A) the physical attack scales with it and B) the magical attack (of which the base damage is determined by the physical damage) also scales with it

sacado de MMo, hay miles de post sobre esto


esto que quoteo aca es sobre una conversacion en un foro, antes que salga cata

The only thing I could disagree with is removing Scourge Strike’s shadow damage.
The shadow damage was the thing that made SS unique from Obliterate and Blood Strike, and created a whole world of possibilities when it started double-dipping.

mas abajo otro chabon pone

With the removal of Desolation, Bone Shield, Blood Presence, and so on, SS won’t actually double dip into anything in Cataclysm (aside from the BM/Arcane raid buffs)

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[AGodude]

Bueno, creo q no lo lee al otro.. pero lo que yo posteé, y pensé que quedaba clarísimo, era lo que acá el amigo Consider de Elitist Jerks en Dragonbligth nos explica mejor.. cito:

The most basic first; what presence should I be in and why?
Blood Presence is always the superior option. In the previous patch Unholy Presence was moderately competitive at certain gear points due to the GCD reduction aspect and the fact that our rotation was GCD constrained. Considering the latter is no longer the case, thus making the former now of absolutely zero value, the comparison between the two presences simply comes down to the damage verse the haste. 15% damage is an increase of approximately 12.75% dps, when you consider that it affects all of our damage except ghoul, gargoyle, and army. 15% haste, on the other hand, is only an increase of maybe 7.5% dps, as it only affects auto-attack (and auto-attack related, such as Necrosis, BCB, and Bryntroll) damage and pets.

Not just that, but Scourge Strike double dips into the 15% damage buff of Blood Presence, increasing its value and cementing it as the clear choice.

Double dips? I see that mentioned a lot in regards to Scourge Strike, but never an explanation of what it means.
The short, simple answer: If a buff or talent affects the damage of Scourge Strike once, it single dips. If it affects the damage of Scourge Strike twice, thus boosting the damage by more than the stated amount, then it double dips and is of increased worth.

The long answer: The new Scourge Strike is split into two actual hits; the first being physical damage and the second being shadow damage. The damage of the shadow portion is entirely dependent on the damage of the physical. What this means is that anything that increase the damage of the physical portion – be it a stat, a buff, a debuff, or a talent – will also increase the shadow portion by the same proportion. Outbreak, for example, increases the damage of the physical strike by 20% and by doing so, the shadow strike is increased by 20%, causing the Scourge Strike to do 20% more damage overall than it otherwise would, as the talent states.

However, some buffs and talents will affect the physical strike (thus increasing the damage of the shadow strike) but then also affect the shadow strike directly. Blood Presence, as previously mentioned, is one such buff. It will increase the damage of the physical strike by 15% which will then increase the damage of the shadow strike by 15%. On top of that, however, it will then go and buff the damage of the shadow strike by 15% yet again, meaning while the physical portion had its damage increased by 15%, the shadow portion had its damage increased by 32.25%. Thus the amount Blood Presence increased your overall Scourge Strike damage will be greater than the stated 15%.

Bone Shield, Desolation, Two-Handed Weapon Specialization, Blood Presence, Ferocious Inspiration, Sanctified Retribution, and Arcane Empowerment are all buffs and/or talents which are double dipped.

Y remarco, teniendo en cuenta las fotitos que posteé y ya quedaron atrás x la pelea esta entre uds dos. "However, some buffs and talents will affect the physical strike (thus increasing the damage of the shadow strike) but then also affect the shadow strike directly. Blood Presence, as previously mentioned, is one such buff. It will increase the damage of the physical strike by 15% which will then increase the damage of the shadow strike by 15%. On top of that, however, it will then go and buff the damage of the shadow strike by 15% yet again, meaning while the physical portion had its damage increased by 15%, the shadow portion had its damage increased by 32.25%. Thus the amount Blood Presence increased your overall Scourge Strike damage will be greater than the stated 15%." ese parrafo.

Pero quedaba mejor con las fotitos de lo que posteé más arriba.

[slogan123]

eso ya esta re contra posteadisimo y yo lo quotie unas 10 veces.. pero draguen te va a decir que elitistjerks no existe.. y que todos los que hable de double dip es porque miraron la guia esa.. hay todo un complot al rededor (?)...

podes llegar a encontrar en todos los lugares que hablen del wow que el SS hace double dip en muchos talents en este caso presence.. no encontre ni 1 que diga lo contrario..

[Draguen]

Bueno, creo q no lo lee al otro.. pero lo que yo posteé, y pensé que quedaba clarísimo, era lo que acá el amigo Consider de Elitist Jerks en Dragonbligth nos explica mejor.. cito:



Y remarco, teniendo en cuenta las fotitos que posteé y ya quedaron atrás x la pelea esta entre uds dos. "However, some buffs and talents will affect the physical strike (thus increasing the damage of the shadow strike) but then also affect the shadow strike directly. Blood Presence, as previously mentioned, is one such buff. It will increase the damage of the physical strike by 15% which will then increase the damage of the shadow strike by 15%. On top of that, however, it will then go and buff the damage of the shadow strike by 15% yet again, meaning while the physical portion had its damage increased by 15%, the shadow portion had its damage increased by 32.25%. Thus the amount Blood Presence increased your overall Scourge Strike damage will be greater than the stated 15%." ese parrafo.

Pero quedaba mejor con las fotitos de lo que posteé más arriba.

No se por que mencionas esas fotos, ya que son sacadas en wowarg. Hoy en dia con el fix hecho, el scourge strike esta tomando blood presence. Osea para lo unico que sirven esas fotos es para...realmente nada, ya que no nos muestran como deberia funcionar, sino que nos muestra como esta funcionando aca en wowarg. (debido al fix).

La info que posteaste ya la refute 10.000 veces, y la siguen posteando. Haceme un favor, anda a la pagina 1 y empeza a leer de ahi.

Realmente no sean tan tercos de venir a postear lo mismo que ya se posteo antes. Tomense el trabajo de leer el topic si quieren acotar, pero no vengan a tirarlo mismo al boleo. Lo entiendo de parte de slogan, que parece que le falla un poco, pero bue.

Ahora te repito por decimo tercera vez:

La guia de elitist jerks es viejisima, fue editada montones de veces, y fue hecha por players. Es 1 sola fuente de informacion que dice eso, el resto de lo que encontras en internet a favor es una copia de esa guia.

Por otro lado tenes:

- un post de ghost crawler que dice que no double dipea.
- Tenes el addon Dr.Damage que dice que no double dipea.
- Tenes lo que dijo Rblanca sobre que no double dipea
- Tenes la simple logica de que los DKs estan tirando fruta ya que del post de ghostcrawler sacan lo de la resilience, pero desestiman lo del +damage

Doden, no te ofendas, pero si queres opinar del tema lo menos que podes hacer es leer el topic entero ya que esto, ya fue posteado. Venir a tirar links por tirar no sirve.

[slogan123]

Lo tuyo no es nada irrefutable no? Que tipo mogolico


Si leyeras sabrías que en esa guía estaban al tanto de los posts de gc bobo los demás comentarios que encontré antes de cata tmb leyeron la guía?

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[Draguen]

Lo tuyo no es nada irrefutable no? Que tipo mogolico


Si leyeras sabrías que en esa guía estaban al tanto de los posts de gc bobo los demás comentarios que encontré antes de cata tmb leyeron la guía?

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Slogan, haceme el favor y deja de postear huevadas. Venis llorando en todo el foro por cualquier cosa

Incluso en la seccion Dk, tus compañeros dk te dicen que te calles que no entendes nada. Claramente no tenes idea donde estas parado.

Los comentarios de cata son comentarios de players,que seguramente sacan la misma info chota de elitistjerks. Ya se ha comprobado varias veces que los players a veces se equivocan.

Te hago una pregunta, vos que pensas del double dip de resilience?

[slogan123]

3) The Shadow part of the damage should never be decreased additionally to the physical damage. It should not "double dip" from resilience et al. Example: My physical portion that hits for 2000 is reduced to 1000. The Shadow part should then hit for 1000 (modulo bonuses) and not 500 or whatever.


vos que estas discutiendo draguen ? que no hace double dip en nada ? no te entiendo, o solamente que no hace double dip en blood presence ?

[Draguen]

3) The Shadow part of the damage should never be decreased additionally to the physical damage. It should not "double dip" from resilience et al. Example: My physical portion that hits for 2000 is reduced to 1000. The Shadow part should then hit for 1000 (modulo bonuses) and not 500 or whatever.


vos que estas discutiendo draguen ? que no hace double dip en nada ? no te entiendo, o solamente que no hace double dip en blood presence ?

vos sabes que eso es del post de ghost crawler no?

[slogan123]

y no estamos hablando de que el resilence esta reduciendo 2 veces el shadow ?, primero al fisico (lo que hace que redusca el shadow) y despues reduce el shadow independientemente ?

[Draguen]

y no estamos hablando de que el resilence esta reduciendo 2 veces el shadow ?, primero al fisico (lo que hace que redusca el shadow) y despues reduce el shadow independientemente ?

repito...

Vos sabes que esa frase que quoteaste son las palabras que dijo Ghost Crawler?

Es exactamente lo que dijo en el post que yo linkie.